Beautiful Snake, help with ID

[kg4wel]

Hello, thanks from a group newbie. I have been a herp admirer for more
than 40 years now, not professionally, just a long term interest and
admiration.

Today I photographed a beautiful snake in my pond. Please if someone
might help me ID the snake, the patches look somewhat like a
copperhead, but the snake in general is a little dull in color, maybe
due to age? I would estimate the snake to be appx 4 ft in length.

The photo was taken at about 30 ft with 12x zoom.

Loading Image...

Thank you in advance Scott

[Gabriel]

Random guess that is most probably wrong.... the darkish green makes me
think of a water mochassin? (Agkistrodon piscivorus?)

Cheerio :-)

[kg4wel]

Thank you, after googling images of Agkistrodon piscivorus, I see this
is a better guess, I never knew Moccasins had such diverse coloring.
Innitally the snake did not have the typical fat body look, but more a
look of a longer/slender snake, you can see the longish tail trailing
out of the frame, I first saw it hanging in a low bush above the water,
where the color had an orangish/yellowish shade to the diamond markings
which appeared not to go completely around the body. The photo does
give a more green appearance, but still not sure if this snake is a
viper.

Thanks for your reply Gabriel,

Cheers!

Post by Gabriel
Random guess that is most probably wrong.... the darkish green makes me
think of a water mochassin? (Agkistrodon piscivorus?)
Cheerio :-)

[d***@teleport.com]

Scott,

It looks like one of the water snakes (genus Nerodia) to me. The
chain-like pattern down the back is fairly indicative, and they do look
a lot like cottonmouths. Their heads don't quite have that viper
triangle shape, and as you noted the body is slimmer than cottonmouths
usually are. Knowing your location would help narrow down the species
to check, but I'm sure if you do a google search for (your state) and
Nerodia, you'll get a list.

D

[Gabriel]

Actually my first guess would have been Nerodia as well, but doesn't
the head look too arrow-shaped? (or is that just the reflection in the
water?) Don't Nerodia usually have a thinner, longer head? Having said
that, I know some Nerodia look very much like Agkistrodon species...


Cheerio :-)

[Douglas Brown]

Some of the Nerodia have been pegged as not just superficially looking
like Agkistrodon, but being actual mimics. I don't know how much skull
kinesis they can behaviorally exhibit, but Pituophis which are Crotalus
mimics can actively flatten out their heads into a triangle. To me the
slender body shape and blotched coloration in Scott's picture leans me
towards Nerodia more than the head shape. I agree with Gabriel that
the head shape is equivocal. However, I suspect piscivores (fish
eaters) often have more robust jaw muscles than the basic Colubrid
because they are "bite and hang on" predators. Congratulations on
stimulating a great conversation, Scott!

Cheers!

D

[kg4wel]

Thank you everyone for the input... yes after looking at images of
Nerodia, it looks much more like what the snake looked like out of the
water... apologies for the somewhat poor picture, i think the light and
water distorted the image some. As I saw the snake personally it was
long that is why I did not immediately think "viper" and questioned
"what the heck is it" It is certainly a pretty snake.

Thanks again, if I get another photo within a day or two I will post
it..

Scott

[sb]

Almost certainly a northern water snake, Nerodia sipedon. Where was the
photo taken?

Post by kg4wel
Hello, thanks from a group newbie. I have been a herp admirer for more
than 40 years now, not professionally, just a long term interest and
admiration.
Today I photographed a beautiful snake in my pond. Please if someone
might help me ID the snake, the patches look somewhat like a
copperhead, but the snake in general is a little dull in color, maybe
due to age? I would estimate the snake to be appx 4 ft in length.
The photo was taken at about 30 ft with 12x zoom.
http://www.ragchewers.net/images/untitled_snake.jpg
Thank you in advance Scott